It’s time to reboot the Child Safety Source podcast. While we’re enduring the challenges of social distancing due to the COVID-19 pandemic, now is a great time to shake things up. We’re glad to continue bringing you informative segments about water safety that you can watch from the comfort of home.
Keeping that in mind, we’re excited to present a new episode of the Child Safety Source podcast. As our loyal viewers and listeners will notice, the show now has a new format! In previous episodes, Life Saver Pool Fence’s president, Eric Lupton, interviewed a range of renowned safety experts. For our 71st episode, Eric is taking on a co-host. It’s time to reboot the Child Safety Source podcast. Joining him is Rich Specht of Cultivate Kindness: The ReesSpecht Life Foundation.
With this new dual-host format, these devoted safety experts are sharing their pleasant and positive conversation with the audience.
Here’s the latest full episode of the Child Safety Source podcast:
Learning More About Rich Specht
As longtime listeners probably realize, Rich Specht has been on the podcast before. You can watch his original episode here. Here’s some background information about Rich. The Specht family suffered a terrible tragedy. Rich’s 22-month old son, Rees (Richard Edwin-Ehmer Specht), perished after drowning in the family’s backyard pond. Since then, the family has worked hard at keeping Rees’ memory alive. Additionally, they’ve worked to pay forward the kindness that they received in the time since Rees’ untimely demise.
Rich holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Biology from the University of Mary Washington and a Master’s Degree in Liberal Studies from Stony Brook University. Prior to embarking on his career as a public speaker and advocate for kindness and water safety, Rich was a science teacher for 15 years at Great Hollow Middle School in Nesconset, New York.
In addition to his speaking engagements, Rich is also the published author of an award-winning children’s book, A Little Rees Specht Cultivates Kindness, and the upcoming A Little Rees Specht Stops a Bully and A Little Rees Specht for Water Safety. You can learn more about the Specht family’s work at the official website: www.reesspechtlife.com.
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Below is a direct transcript of the Child Safety Source episode from March 26th, 2020:
Eric Lupton: Anything you wanted to go over before we get started?
Rich Specht: No, no. Let’s go. Let’s rock this.
Eric: I like your new room by the way.
Rich: Yeah, this is the result of having way too much time on my hands.
Eric: Perfect.
Rich: Yeah, we just removed everything from my office used to be downstairs, but we had a lot of work done on the house and move stuff. This was Rees’s bedroom. So it has a kind of a special meeting for me to be in here.
Eric: That’s awesome.
Rich: Yeah.
Eric: So I mean, how’s the quarantine living going?
Rich: You know, my wife and I joke around because you know, it’s kind of ironic. I mean, my job is going around speaking to people in large groups
Eric: Right.
Rich: Which of course is kind of the antithesis of what we should be doing right now. So but you know, outside of that, we tend to be very kind of stay at home people. So we joke that, you know, everyone’s complaining about, you know, being home and everything and we’re like, this is totally normal to us. It’s just, you know, in between shows, this is my life. So, you know, the weird thing is, there’s nothing on the horizon right now, which is kind of weird for me. So and a little disconcerting, we’ll figure it out.
Eric: Absolutely. And what about your wife? I mean, is it affecting her work or…?
Rich: Well, I mean, she’s a teacher, so you know, it’s funny cause it’s universal that they’re all learning on the fly. How to take what they’ve been doing. You know, my wife’s been teaching 20 years, take what you’ve been doing you know, that you get into a rhythm on and now it’s been completely upended and Oh, let’s get the same material to the kids now in a way that you’re completely unfamiliar with and that’s completely alien to half of the staff and let’s make it work. So, you know, I feel like they’re trying to nail jello to a wall with most of this, but you know, everyone’s doing their best.
Eric: So what are they doing in New York? So here in Florida, they’ve kind of sent the kids home until April 15th tentatively. They presume it’s going to be until the end of the year, I think. They’ve discontinued all the state testing. They’ve given parents the option of holding their kid back or letting them advance, I believe. And they’ve given them some online learning options, but I don’t think there’s like a mandatory curriculum. I think some teachers, and I don’t have kids, you know, kind of speaking from hearsay. And that seems to be what’s happening is kind of parents been left to do it on their own or not do it, which is probably what my — I was talking to today with Mike here who can see behind me. And I was saying if this was me, you know, my mom would not have started homeschooling the day of the quarantine. It would have been a much longer Spring Break. You know, she’d be like, all right, well, good luck. Have fun. But it sounds like up there the teachers are still like teaching classes, I think, but remotely.
Rich: Yeah. Well, every school is doing it a little bit differently. But I know, you know, there was a mandate from Governor Cuomo for the schools. Basically within one day to provide plans for what’s going on. And even before schools were closed, my wife’s school had them all plan out 10 days’ worth of online lessons. So which they started using this week and now over the next two weeks, they’re designing more stuff. She’s not like doing a video interaction with them, but they are doing online, you know, and it kind of like take home assignments and stuff which is counterintuitive to me because my wife’s a language teacher and I’m like, how do you teach someone a language if you’re not actually there to speak it to them? So you know, like I said, they’re all trying to learn it on the fly.
But New York did something similar. We, canceled the state tests, I think through grades three through eight though. They didn’t cancel the high school test yet. I’m sure they will. And a couple other, you know, we don’t know it’s been like they said, I think Como gave to March 31st for us, not April 15, but we’re waiting for the new announcement saying, okay, well now it’s going to be another two weeks. And I think that’s what they’re going to do basically till, you know, the end of June is the way I see it. So..
Eric: Yeah, I think the school year is probably short, right? I mean, I think this is it.
Rich: I would assume so. If they do go back, you know, what are they going to do? They’re going to begin to spend all this time trying to catch up to things that, you know, now they’ve spent all this time building out all this other stuff. So I just don’t see it working, but you know, we’ll see.
Eric: Yeah. I think we’re going to see a lot of people who have now had their homeschooling dry run out of the system and they decide they love it and they can do it or this is definitely not for them, but the question of whether or not they can do it will be answered, you know?
Rich: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I guess the hope is, that there’ll be a little bit more respect for teachers after this because you know, after seeing the posts that I see on Facebook, you know, all the parents complaining about being home with their kids for a week, you know?
Eric: Yeah.
Rich: Imagine having 30 of them all the time, every day, it’s a different life. Obviously. I was a teacher, I taught for 16 years, so I know that dynamic. Yeah, it’s different. And it’s you know, it’s a calling when you’re a teacher though, so it’s, you know, you love it, but if you don’t have that calling, I don’t think it’s a natural thing for most of us, and to sit with your kids and have to deliver something, you know, constantly, I think that takes kind of discipline that a lot of us don’t have. And you know, again, unless it’s something innate in you, so my hope is that parents are going to be like, wow, this really sucks. Let’s get these kids back to school. And, you know, maybe a little bit more appreciation for what a teacher does every day.
Eric: I definitely have seen a lot of photos of kids on the ground screaming, crying and the captions like, you know, two hours in the first day of school, you know, a lot of that going on, you know.
Rich: Yeah. And I mean, you know, and another truth, I mean, I’m science certified, so my daughter right now, my oldest daughter, Abby, is in high school biology. And that’s what I taught. And so obviously I know this stuff and when she’s had struggles, she’s reluctant to get it, to have me teach her. So you have that too, where kids, you know, my daughter knows that I am a source that she can access and she’s still reluctant to use me. So, you know, there’s that dynamic between a parent and their kid that you don’t have with a teacher that, you know, so that’s just an added level. So, especially if they’re not used to it, you know, and now my daughter is doing these online assignments and now there’s no context for her because she hasn’t had this lesson to kind of learn it. She’s trying to self-learn so now low and behold, she’s like, daddy, can you help me with this? That’s come up. But yeah, it’s definitely it’s obviously it’s different. It’s alien to all of us.
Eric: So, what language does your wife teach?
Rich: German
Eric: German
Rich: Yeah.
Eric: Not exactly an easy thing to learn that over text.
Rich: No, I mean, any language would be hard, but yeah, German is, you know, I would imagine they’re all difficult. But I took German too. That’s actually how I met my wife. So we were on an exchange program in high school and we both went on this same trip to Germany together with about 15 other students. And I met her on this trip in Germany because we both came from different junior high schools within the same district. So it was in 10th grade where we started in our high school building. And it was the summer going into 10th grade that we did this exchange program and I met her over there and it’s, how it all started. So, but she actually hated me when she first met me, so thought I was obnoxious, which I am. She a good judge of character.
Eric: Nothing changed.
Rich: No, no, exactly. I just wore her down.
Eric: So you guys met in 10th grade?
Rich: Yeah. Yeah. Even summer of ninth grade going into 10th grade, so.
Eric: Wow. And so did you get married right out of high school or…?
Rich: No. we dated in high school. I actually started dating in 11th grade. We dated for a month and she decided I was not her type, which she told me. She broke up with me a month to the day after we started going out and it was outside of our chorus class. She dumped me and said that, you know, you’re not my type. And you know, I questioned, I’m like, well, what’s not your type nice guys? And she goes, no, just you. And I was like, oh, that’s like the ultimate burn. But I told her very flatly. I said, you know, I’m okay. And she’s like, okay. And I’m like, you know, because you’re going to marry me one day. And she looked at me like, are you kidding me? And she goes, “oh, that’ll be the day”. And I said, “okay”. And walked in and you know, when went to chorus I was upset and just, you know, just try to let it out. And my chorus teacher tried to, you know, bring me back down to earth and we were friends again after that. And then we started dating again in senior year of high school and then went to college. We broke up like the first month we got to college and got back together again. And I think we broke up one other time after that and then got back together again. We got married and on the day of our wedding, but after we sent her vows, I’m pulling out in the limo and I turned her, she’s all excited, you know, she’s the beaming bride and I’m looking at her and I go, “today’s the day”.
And she goes, “yeah, yeah, it’s our wedding day”. And I’m like, “no, today’s the day”. And she just getting frustrated with me. She’s like, “all right, what do you mean?” And I remember when we were in high school and you dumped me and actually you’re going to marry you one day, you said, “That’ll be the day”. Today’s the day. And she’s like, “Oh my God, I can’t believe you remember that”. I said, “wait, wait, remember how you also complained I always have to be right”. And she goes, “yeah”. And I’m like,” that’s the only reason I married you, I wanted to make sure I was right”.
Eric: Fantastic.
Rich: Yeah. So that’s how it all started.
Eric: I mean, that’s a cool story though.
Rich: Yeah, no, it’s great. I mean, high school sweethearts and my daughter now, it’s funny, my daughter, now, my oldest is the age that we were when we met and it seems surreal and you know, she’s, you know, wondering has she met the guy yet? And I’m like, you know, odds are that’s not going to happen. I mean, you know, my wife and my story isn’t normally as a typical on my, so don’t, don’t think that that’s going to happen sweetie. So, but yeah, it’s cool. It’s cool. I love her with all my heart.
Eric: So we haven’t talked a lot about this beforehand. We talked briefly yesterday before we decided to start doing this. And here’s what we do know. I know that we want to do like a weekly thing. I want to resurrect the Child Safety Source podcast, video podcast.
Rich: Yeah.
Eric: There’s an audio to video version to, you know, get child safety and water safety and other info out to out to folks. And I want to start doing it, you know, with you every, every week and also you know when guests are available, there’s somebody who wants to come on, come on as a, you know, a third wheel, you know, to come join us
Rich: Cool. Yeah.
Eric: But beyond that, we haven’t really talked about you know, kind of what, you know, any thoughts you have for how this goes down or what the plan might be. And I figured, you know, we could discuss it here and you know, so that way people have idea of, you know kind of what’s going to go on. Did you have any vision for the future?
Rich: Well, I think the name, The Child Safety Source is great because you know, and it’s kind of an all-encompassing thing too, right? I mean, it’s not just what a safety, obviously that’s something I’m involved in.
Eric: Me too, obviously.
Rich: But you know, safety comes in so many different forms and I think safety isn’t just, you know, isn’t just physical safety. Could be up here, could be here. So, you know, I think there’s a ton of stuff that’s out there. You know, I’m excited to open new frontiers and see where we can go with this. And I’m open to just about anything. When I speak to schools, like I said, I do water safety. The main thing I do is kindness because that’s kind of what got me started on what I do now. And you know, to me that there’s a safety in that too, right. A safety and understanding that, you know, we’re all connected. So I think sky’s the limit for what we can do here. And hopefully it gets people involved.
Eric: Yeah. And yeah, The Child Safety is broad. I’ve had on people who were no financial advisers because I thought Child safety involved making sure that mom and dad have a good retirement plan so that they can take care of their kids. Right. I mean, that’s child safety. I’ve had an estate planner on for, you know, because I think child safety encompasses, if, you know, a mom and dad pass away in a car accident together and you know, what happens next is part of their child’s safety. Right. So, I had a dental hygienist who taught how to brush a one year old’s teeth because, you know, dental hygiene and I know care is part of the child safety.
Rich: Yeah.
Eric: So I mean the definition is broad. So yeah, I think, like you said, there’s a lot we can do with it. And I don’t think there is a lot of people talking about child safety. You know, in this space. Rick Kauffman is doing the drowning prevention stuff, which is fantastic. And obviously we’ll do that too. And we have, you know, for however many episodes and what a bunch of them but I liked the idea that we’re not kind of tied to that one thing.
Rich: Yeah. I think that, you know, makes a little bit more interesting too. What’s next week’s show going to be about, well, you’ll have to tune in to see. So,
Eric: So you know, since we’re starting this new chapter here, you mind and I can do the same after, kinda explain it, you know who you are, where you come from, and you know, why we’re talking.
Rich: All right. So I mean, heard a little bit about me. Of course. Now you know, my life story for me and my wife’s.
Eric: Yeah. But that’s a good start.
Rich: I’m a former Science Teacher. I taught middle school science for 16 years and figured if you’d asked me, you know, five years ago, would you ever stop doing this? My answer would’ve been no. But unfortunately, eight years ago right before super storm Sandy hit, we lost my 22 month old son who is named after me. And so it’s funny, most people don’t know his real name. His real name is Richard Edwin Emer Specht. But of course it’s initial spelled out Rees. And my last name is Specht. And so his nickname was Rees. His last name was Specht but when he passed away, he died from a drowning accident. I was getting ready for Super storm Sandy and taking care of the lawn furniture and asked a friend to come and help me. So trying to be, you know, that good parent and you know, it was just a simple miscommunication between my friend and I that led to Rees wandering off and he was unsupervised for five minutes and he fell into my backyard pond and he drowned and we lost him. And obviously that changed the whole trajectory of my life. And I thought when Rees had passed away that that was it, that, you know, everything I felt like I died with him. I felt like my relationship with my wife was probably gonna die. Like, how are we gonna come back from this? And we had and then Superstorm Sandy actually hit 36 hours later, wrecked my – you know, Long Island was devastated.
And had no power for 14 days. My yard was destroyed, my house was damaged. And you know, just thought that was the worst thing ever. Nothing would bring me back from that. And it was that interconnectivity that I didn’t see between me, myself and everyone around us that saved me. We had a landscaper who was a complete stranger who found out what had happened and just showed up at my door and said, “let me clean up your yard”. And I wouldn’t let him. And he did it anyhow. And he just kept coming back and just kept doing more and more and more, you know, and it wasn’t just him, it was, you know, my friends and family and my former students and all these people did all this stuff but wanted nothing in return. And it made me think, you know, why are people doing this?
And the scientist in me was like, okay, I get it. You know, like, you know, we were brought down here, so they were trying to bring us back up. Right. And I thought in terms of positive and negative charges, I’m like, well, so everyone’s trying to bring me back to neutral. So they realized they have this power when you’re down here to bring you back here and I remember saying, at Rees’s Memorial service, I since you know, I thank you. You helped to bring Samatha and I back to here. I said, but I have a crazy idea. If you have the power to lift us up here, what about if we assume that everyone is neutral? What can we do if we apply that power when we’re all neutral? That’s positivity, right? That brings us to a positive. And I thought about that as, you know, let’s start with this. Let’s start with this idea that we can do little things that can lift us all up. You know, and not wait for a tragedy, not wait for reactivity to kick in, let’s be proactive. And so we started doing acts of kindness in Rees’s name and we had these little cards printed up, call it Rees Spect Life. And our goal was to do 500 random acts of kindness and Rees’s name and hope that that would start something. And it did. We did our 500 Acts of Kindness in a year, but those 500 cards that we put out, you know, people started doing other acts of kindness and would report them to us and would ask me for more cards and I would send them out. And you know, here we are now eight years later and we’ve given out 670,000 of those cards.
Eric: That’s so cool.
Rich: Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome. And so like I said, five years ago I was still teaching, but I had been asked by local college to come and share our story because they heard about the cards and what we were doing. And I had shared with the college itself, Stony Brook University, which was right around the corner from my house. And when I spoke to the group, there was a bunch of teachers in the audience and they are like, Oh, can you come speak to my school? And I was like, well, you know, I’m a teacher too, so it’s kinda hard for me to get out. But my principal was awesome and he said, “if the school wants you to come and talk, go, we’re all together in this”. And so I started doing that, but then it started just getting to a point where I was having so many schools asked me to come and speak, but I couldn’t do both.
And so five years or four years ago, I said, all right, fine, I’m going to see if I can do this full time. And that’s what I’ve done ever since. So I’ve now spent the last 4 years basically traveling around the country, speaking to schools about kindness and bullying prevention and all those things that kind of relate to the perspective that I now have based on our experience. And we try to share that with kids all over and all age groups, kindergarten through seniors. And at same time, I was also approached by Bobby Hazen, who you know of course, who had started a program here on Long Island called the Long Island Drowning Prevention Task Force. And he of course had heard about what had happened to Rees and we met at a function together which we’re both being honored for our work in the community. And he wanted to get to know me and I immediately, when I met him, I said, “I don’t want anything to do with drowning prevention”. And he asked me why, and I said, “because I failed at it”. I’m the poster child for what you’re not supposed to do. You know, I feel like if I were to speak about how to prevent drowning I’d be a hypocrite. And he’s like, “no, you’re the perfect voice for this and you had experience speaking to schools and we’ve been doing these school shows, but you know, I could really use your help”. And I basically blew him off and I said, “I don’t want anything to do with it, but you know, good luck”. But he just kept reaching out.
He was persistent, you know, Bobby, you know that’s how he is. And I finally said, “all right, you know what, I gotta practice what I preach, I’ll be nice”. So I went to his office and I sat down with them and he’s talking to me. He works for the largest swim school chain on Long Island, Safety Swim. And so when I went to meet him in his office, their logo was behind his head as he’s sitting in his chair and their motto was “Where kids learn to love and respect the water.” And I’m looking at it and I’m like, respect. That’s it. And I just looked at him and I was actually ignoring what he was saying because it was almost like Peanuts when the parents would go “wah wah wah” I know he was saying stuff, but I was just focused on this, respect the water. And I just looked at him and I said, “Oh my God, that’s it, I’m supposed to be here.” And he’s like, what? And I said, “no, respect the water”. Like maybe there’s something to, that’s all right, I’ll work with you. And I mean, he really didn’t have to say a word to me. I just seeing those words did it. And so we’ve kind of put our heads together and started working together to kinda change what he was doing because I kind of brought in my educator experience and my experience as a Public Speaker, now, too. And I said, well, you need to do these things. Let’s change this. Let’s change this. But he kept doing it. He was doing the shows. First thing I told him is that you’ve got to change the name of what you’re doing. The Long Island Drowning Prevention Task Force is way too long and it’s a mouthful. I was like, we got to get to the point.
Let’s give it a name that people can identify which gives a sense of urgency. So we came up with End Drowning Now, which I don’t think you can get any more succinct than that. And we redesigned what he was doing as “Respect the Water.” And I had written a children’s book and we had an animated series that was in the works based on the characters and my children’s book that were based on Rees. A little Rees Specht in a book. He’s a little farmer who discovers that kindness is like a seed that you can help to grow, which is, you know, a good analogy for what we do.
And he’s like, can we use that character to kind of build out our shows? And I said, “yeah, sure, let’s do it”. And so we started designing this new show that involved the animated character, Rees, teaching children about the importance of water safety. So, and actually that’s the shirt I’m wearing. So, “Rees Spect the Water” and we finally got into a place where we wanted to be, in fact, we were going to be unveiling the new program this year. We did a trial one last year. And we released an animated video that was based on what we’re doing.
Eric: Which I watched and I had a small part in.
Rich: Yes you did.
Eric: It’s awesome. It’s super cool. Like it’s really well done. The animation is great. The story is fantastic.
Rich: I love it. And if you don’t,
Eric: It’s like water safety one and the kindest one. Excellent. So yeah, I mean they came out really good.
Rich: Yeah. The kindness one we haven’t released actually because that’s actually part of what I do in my show is for kindergarteners. So that’s my way of teaching them kindness without like burdening them with Rees’s story. So I put the water safety one, obviously we have released and that’s a part of the shows that we do. And we were getting ready for this big unveiling at the National Drowning Prevention Alliance conference that now has been changed, I guess a virtual right. But I’m….
Eric: Are you still presenting it for the digital version?
Rich: Yeah, we are. We are, but I think the thrust of what we’re trying to do has been changed because you know, I want to make sure that when we officially release this, that it’s and it’s done right. You know, because, you know, there’s a lot of distraction right now. There’s a lot of noise. And I don’t think, you know, if we were to try to release it now and say, this is what we’re doing, I think it would hit with a giant thud. So we don’t want that. And you know, we’ve had the backing now of the basically the largest franchisee of swim schools, Streamline Brands. They’re partnering with us to help bring this to life.
And, you know, and we want to make sure it’s big and at this point been able to do that, doesn’t really exist, to me. Swims schools across the country are closed right now so it was exceptionally bad timing, but its bad timing for everybody. So, that’s where we’re at. So, but I’m kind of in limbo right now because I don’t have schools to speak to because they’re all closed. And obviously the water safety aspect too has been basically shut down, which a part of me is concerned about as well, because now you have kids who have been receiving these lessons that I believe are integral, and now they’re not getting them and that goes for whatever type of swim lesson you were really getting. I think a lot of that’s been shut down. So, you know, I have this concern that, you know, we’re losing valuable contact with the most vulnerable group to drowning. And, you know, if this continues, that scares me. So, yeah, so that’s what I do.
Eric: That’s one of the reasons why I’ve been glad that we’ve been able stay in business. You know, we’re not shut down like a lot of the other businesses are.
Rich: Right.
Eric: You know, and in fact, yesterday the mayor of West Palm Beach announced on behalf of Palm Beach County that Palm Beach County was shutting down all non-critical businesses. They’d already done not essential businesses, but that was not critical. Apparently difference yet had a little bit in there that how every business in Palm Beach County is essential, so there’s, I know noncritical businesses. And I was like, all right, this is it. This is where they’re gonna tell us to stop. And you know, I read through the list and thankfully, you know, it looks like we’re still okay. But which I’m glad because you know, you have all of these parents who are staying at home with all their kids for long stretches of time distracted by everything going on in an environment they’re not used to dealing with. Maybe try to homeschool, like we talked it out. And you know, now more than ever, people need to have the layers of protection in place to protect their pools. So I’m really glad that we’re still here. You know, shipping pool fences our dealers still out there installing pool fences especially with all the people who are in an unusual situation, right as summer is starting, right. As the weather is warming up and right as you know, the doors in the backyard are being opened. Right as older kids are going to be in and out of the back doors. You know, probably going in and out of the pool. Maybe they’ll leave those doors open for their younger siblings. All that’s going on. So, you know, I’m glad that you know, we’re still able to make and ship fence. It makes me happy, you know?
Rich: Well, yeah, and to me, what you do is integral. It’s funny, all the water safety people talked about the layers of protection and that’s like ingrained in us now, but that’s actually alien to most parents. Like they just don’t know it. They don’t see it. And that’s why as an educator, that’s why I, you know, I am particularly drawn out of what I do for water safety. Because I realized, you know, when people ask me what killed my son, I honest, my first answer is ignorance. Ignorance. Because I unfortunately believed the myth that I think most parents believe, which is deadly, is that, you know, it’s the perfect parent myth. Most parents think that water safety begins and ends with their, focus and attention and that, you know, the first thing you hear when a child drowns, the first thing, the first voices you hear from people outside of sympathy is, “Oh, oh, they’re bad Parents, they didn’t, you know, Oh, they didn’t keep their eyes on their kids.” And you know, the fingers get pointed in and the perfect parents are the ones who, Oh, see that’s bad. And, and I was that parent because every time I read about him drowning, I knew I’d shake my head like, Oh my God, how could they not keep their eyes on their kids?
And when we lost Rees it was five minutes and it was a miscommunication. My friend thought Rees was with me. I thought he was with him. We both thought we were doing what was necessary and it turns out neither of us were, because that’s chaos. That’s you know, its entropy. That’s, that’s the universe. Right? And the thing I got to realize that there is no such thing as a perfect parent. Every parent I’ve ever spoken to has said, well, my God, I’ve said those same words where so-and-so, and I realized that, you know, yeah, 99.9% of the time that that statement, where is so-and-so ends with relief. Like, Oh, I found you but in my case and in the case of basically every other parent I’ve ever spoken to that’s lost a kid to a drowning or really any type of accident, right? Any type of accident that kid wandered off on their own. It’s always the same thing. Oh, I thought they were with you. Or Oh my gosh, you know, I thought they were here. So this belief that we can keep attention on kids full time its folly.
Eric: I get more concerned by parents who say I always watch my kid, I don’t need that. You know, essentially they don’t require any additional layer of protection because they’re always watching their kid. Those parents scare me way more than the ones who are like, you know yeah, I sleep, I use the restroom. I’ve got an older child that I’m sometimes talking to and I, I definitely need, you know, support, you know, because that parent is realistic. The first one doesn’t realize that he or she is delusional.
Rich: Yeah, absolutely. It’s funny, I just read a story to tie into what we’re experiencing right now. I just read a story about, you know, the social distancing and the people who are practicing it, you know, basically to the T, versus, you know, you see things like from Clearwater Beach and stuff where they had groups of people all gathering together. And I was just reading an article from a sociologist saying that you could basically group people into one of three categories when it comes to any type of crisis. It’s under prepares, over prepares and then the Goldilocks ones. And that applies to exactly what I’ve been doing because the underprepared are the ones who are like, “ah it’s going to be fine.” You know, they’re the ones who are overconfident in their belief of what they, you know, what they can do. So I don’t need to worry about it because I’ve taken care. The over preparers are the ones who take it to an extreme and you know, try to lock everything down. And then you have like the Goldilocks people who are, you know, realistic but understand what they need to do. And unfortunately, most people fall into the two extremes and most don’t fall into that little Goldilocks zone. And you know, I think you see that being demonstrated with people’s response to COVID19. I see that. Definitely see that response when it comes to people’s responses to, you know, water safety. And you know, it’s like, wow, you can apply this to so many different things. And so it’s kinda stuck out to me that, you know, again how do you get people from being those under-prepares to over-prepare is to the Goldilocks zone. And you know, it struck me, well that’s still education. The more you know, the more you’re likely to respond to something in an informed way. So it still comes down to getting the word out and that’s what we need to do.
Eric: Yeah, absolutely. You know, when it comes to the COVID19 thing, I think I’m oscillating between those two extremes. Like I’ve definitely never been in the Goldilocks. I go from being like, I knew I’d be all right to, you know, batten down the hatches. I’m not talking to anybody even over the phone because they might give it to me. I’m swung wildly from one direction the other in any given moment, you know?
Rich: Yeah, yeah. I again, I mean, you know, it made sense to me when I read this. I was like, okay, yeah, I think that’s true. I mean, how many of us actually find ourselves in that perfect place? I don’t think we do. So you know, but the thing is too, if, you know, the under preparers are going to be the people who also I think if you would, you know, I don’t have data that backs us up, but I would think that the majority of those under-preparers of people who are also under informed and don’t recognize the inherent danger.
Eric: Right.
Rich: So that comes back to ignorance. So, you know, when it came to losing Rees, when people ask me what killed him, I actually, I want them to know my ignorance did because, you know, I thought that just keeping my eye on my kid was enough. We actually had a self-locking self-latching gate that went around my backyard that I thought was enough. You know, we didn’t have something around the pond and, well, why would I put a fence around my pond? I want to look at it, I want it to be pretty, you know, so, you know, the aesthetics were more important, right? And I thought, Oh, I combined that with the, you know, the fact that I keep my eyes on my kids and I have this fence, and I have alarms on my doors so that every time the door opened it was a sound that I would know. You know, I thought I had everything prepared and the one thing I didn’t have, and honestly the thing that I think would have made the most difference is he hadn’t started swim lessons and that’s one other way.
Right. And I was told start him at two, so he was actually signed up to start his swim lessons at two. He was 22 months old when he died. And you know, he drowned in 18 inches of water and he could’ve stood up. He could have reacted had he not been afraid or unfamiliar with the water. And my daughter Molina, who we had after Rees, we started her in swim lessons at four months old. And I can tell you for sure if the same situation had repeated itself with her, I wouldn’t be sitting here because she would’ve just nonchalantly kind of self-rescued herself and got out of the water without even thinking twice at 22 months old. So, I didn’t know that then and I do now. So that’s where that ignorance comes in. So, you know, that’s why education and getting word out is important. That’s why I think doing something like we’re doing right now is important. And hopefully people respond.
Eric: Yeah. You know you know, I was doing the those videos for a while where I was literally saying everyday that drowning is the number one cause of accidental death in children between ages one to four years old and that multiple layers of protection are the solution. Because like I said, I don’t think people realize that (A) the drowning literally kills more children you know, besides disease, than anything else. Car accidents more than the outlets that you put plugs in more than the stairs and you put Gates in front of more than all the things in some cases combined, drowning is what’s killing children. And especially in that one to four age range, and yeah, and if you think you’re watching it all the time, you don’t. You can’t, you have to sleep, right? You have to go to the bathroom and something you have to do the things you do to live your life. It’s literally impossible to have your eyeballs on a two year old every day. And if you are, you’re probably a little crazy, you know, so it’s impossible. Yeah, you need layers of protection beyond supervision cause you know, it does fail. You know, 70% of drowning cases happen like yours where there was a parent responsible for supervision and something broke down.
Rich: Well, unfortunately, I say that I’ve become a member of a fraternity I never wanted to be a member of, you know, and being a part of this fraternity and speaking to all these other parents, it struck me the first time I met them was that, Oh my God, all our stories are the same. They’re all versions of the same story. And you know, so this idea, are we the bad parents? Is every person I’m looking at right now, are they bad people? No, they were parents. They were humans. And we make mistakes. And, you know, the one unifying factor was that, there was one or multiple layers of the protection that had they been in place would’ve made a difference, you know. So in my case, I actually believe it was the swim lessons and, you know, had Rees had them, you know, I wouldn’t be sitting here today. And those other parents’ cases, you know, it wasn’t having, you know, a pool fence with a self-latching, self-closing gate. And that would’ve made the difference and they didn’t have it. So, you know, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. And, you know, I saw that weak link unified, but the one unifying factor was still, Oh, I thought they were with you, or I thought they were okay, or I thought they were here. Right. So to me that’s the threat is that, you know, we’re overconfident and that overconfident results in under preparedness.
Eric: So, I say this all the time, you know, every parent has a story of catching their kid with crayons, painting a mural on the living room wall, right? Every parent’s got the story of their kid covered in peanut butter because they climbed up on the counter and got access to it and, you know, it’s all to themselves. Every parent’s got the story of, you know, their kid shaving half their head off in the bathroom or, you know putting makeup, you know, all over themselves, the dog and the floor. Right, right. Like, you know, these the video montage is I’ll use, you know, really funny videos of kids getting into all these things where they were obviously unsupervised for long enough to achieve these feats. Right? And I always say, you know, these are just lucky parents. They’re lucky, these kids decided to do this instead of going to the backyard and into the pool.
Rich: Right? And where’s the irony there that you can post those videos on Facebook or on an online, and “Oh my God, that’s so funny! Ha ha ha!” And yet when my story is out there, Oh my God, what a terrible human being they are. What terrible parents. Oh, I would never do that. You know? So again, that’s a lack of perspective. It’s a lack of understanding. And you know, there’s two ways you get perspective. There’s only two, and this is universal. You either experience something that causes you to see something differently than you saw it before. That’s the first way. And that’s honestly the most effective way to get perspective. But, the second way you can get perspective, and the only other way, is to have someone share with you an experience that makes you think differently than you had before and makes you see something from a different way than you had seen it before. And you know what we call those people? Teachers. Because you’ve now taught them something that they hadn’t seen before. So that’s what an educator does. They give perspective and that’s why education is so important and that’s why we’re doing what we’re doing. It’s so important. That’s why when you asked me to join you with this, I was like, absolutely. I didn’t even hesitate. You know, you asked me, I’m like, “Yep, I’m in,” because this is another chance to educate. And so I hope people are paying attention because it makes a difference.
Eric: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and yeah, I think the more we can, you know, connect those funny moments that people share to the idea that those are our fatality near misses, right?
Rich: Right.
Eric: I think that’s a successful way of doing it. And I, I think that’s been done a lot, really. I mean, there’s been some, some things people have posted on Facebook a little, you know you know, some grassroots stuff. I don’t think that that idea has been put into like a real campaign and distributed. I think that might be, that might be worth looking into, you know?
Rich: Yeah. I mean obviously we’d have to kind of walk a fine line there because you know, I don’t want to go to every like, you know, funny video and be like, ha, that’s funny, but your kid could have died. Right. You know, but we definitely, definitely if you could open someone’s eyes up to that idea, then yeah. Like, Oh my God. Like I didn’t think of that. You know, I have pictures. It’s funny. You mentioned what you said, but you know, kids shaving off an eyebrow or you know, or getting into the peanut butter. I have pictures of my other kids from those end results. Like one of my favorite pictures of my daughter, Abby, is her cupboard with the Desitin, the diaper rash cream —
Eric: Oh Jesus.
Rich: And ah, that was so funny because what did she do? She got into the Desitin, into the drawer without our knowledge. And then we caught her with it. We’re like, oh my God, what did you do? And that moment was literally no different than the moment that stole my son from us. And literally only difference there, is that one had a funny happy ending and the other one had a tragic one. And as a result of the ending, now people’s perception of it is totally different. And again, if that’s the case, then their perspective on it is off. And so you have to have that perspective. And again, the only way to do that either experience it, which I don’t want, you know, obviously don’t want that. So we got to teach them.
Eric: Absolutely. And you know I think the only folks who get at worse than, than parents who have experienced a drowning, you guys get it terrible. It’s not right, how people treat parents who have experienced a drowning. Cause like you said, it could happen. All these parents who have had these stories or experiences that they just got lucky. But the only people who get it worse, who also don’t deserve it, are the parents who have lost a child in the back of a car, due to overheating.
Rich: Yep. I thought that’s where you’re going.
Eric: Yeah. because that’s also a phenomenon that can happen to anybody, you know the psychological mechanic that makes a parent forget their child is random and can literally happen to anybody. If you’ve ever driven to work and gotten there and realize you don’t remember driving the whole way. Like you’re just there and you don’t remember if you stop at the red lights, but you know you did because you survived, you know, that’s you, right? I mean that can be you. Everybody’s had this experience where they’re kind of on autopilot and they just, you know, get to where they’re going and walk in to work or, you know, wherever they’re going, and yeah, and don’t think of things. And especially if you’re, you know under-slept or overstressed, you know, all the things that a young parent usually is.
Rich: Right.
Eric: So and yeah, those people get treated so terribly by other parents who think, you know, there’s no way they can forget their kid in the back of my car and they 100% could. There is no question that any parent could suffer the same phenomenon. It’s just luck they haven’t. And you know, that’s another kind of project I’m working on and it’s kind of in its infancy, but yeah I hate when I see one of those stories in all the comments are just, you know, moms and dads ripping out those parents. It’s terrible, you know just like, like you’re talking about, you know, just be nicer even if, even if that’s true, right? Even if that parent screwed up and they’re negligent in some way which sometimes happens, you know, you read stories about parents, they’re on narcotics and you know that they’re doing the wrong thing. It happens. But even then, you know, cultivate some kindness, be nice.
Rich: Right? That’s all right. Yeah. You’d be surprised what it can do. You know, being kind doesn’t mean you’re being weak. It doesn’t mean you’re…, kindness isn’t necessarily forgiveness either. And I think a lot of people confuse the two,
Eric: Or acceptance.
Rich: Right? So, you know, kindness should be unconditional and so forgiveness is conditional. Obviously there’s a condition that requires you to forgive. So kindness should be unconditional and you can be kind and still be stern. You can be kind and still give consequence. So yeah, I think we lose that as a society we don’t quite grasp what kindness truly represents. And you know, obviously that’s something else I’d like to change. And you know, you were just mentioning before, you know, we talking about ideas for other shows. That’s something I would love to touch on one day is inattentive blindness because that’s a fascinating subject that I’ve become more interested in since we lost Rees. And yeah, that’s definitely something that it’s just keeping in my mind. If you know anything about it, there’s some fascinating studies on that, that psychological phenomenon that we all experienced that explains how a parent can leave a kid in the car and explains how you can think you’re focusing on something that you’re actually not. And you know, this idea that you can do two things at once or really can’t. So definitely it’s something to keep in mind for a future podcast.
Eric: Yeah, absolutely, I’d love to talk about that. I’ve even been doing this for close to an hour. We can wrap it up, but I was going to ask you this. You’re talking about kindness. You know, I mean, you’ve been obviously thinking and talking about the idea of kindness at a level that I don’t think most people tend to do. As you’ve gone through this, has there any, has there been any ideas about kindness that you’ve kind of uncovered that you didn’t know before? You know, has your idea of what kindness is changed? Has it evolved, you know, there are some nuances of it that you’re surprised about. You know, have there been any revelations about kindness that you kind of unpacked?
Rich: Well, I’ll tell you the biggest one I had was actually something I already touched on. I honestly, before all this, I would have told you that kindness is absolutely conditional, that it’s reactive, that it is transactional. I always looked at kindness as something that was a means to an end. I looked at it very clinically before I was experienced this for real. And I think that’s the scientist in me. I saw it as, you know, kind of, action/reaction and what I’ve come to understand through what I’ve done is that it’s actually literally not that, that kindness is this nebulous thing that kind of connects us and it’s this, you know, undercurrent that I can’t put my finger on and to me that’s actually, it almost makes it like this magic because I see what it does and it doesn’t have to be conditional.
And yes, can kindness be conditional? Sure. But I don’t know if that’s truly kindness then if there’s a condition to it. So what I’ve come to recognize kindness as being, as this power that we have to lift others up and it doesn’t have to have a reason. We could do it at any time. And that to me was the biggest thing I recognized. And it was my biggest change and it’s honestly the message I’m trying to get out there and say, you can be kind at any time and when you choose it, it has an effect on someone else. So your choice to do it is the greatest power you have because when you choose to be kind, you’re doing it honestly to lift others up. And it shows this interconnectivity between us that I never truly grasped until I saw what happened, until I saw 500 cards becoming 670,000. So this interconnectivity is the biggest thing that I got out of it, that, you know, I was like, you know, just blew my mind and it continues to, it continues to, because these connections that I see that I never would have seen otherwise.
Eric: And I mean, I think we’re all getting a good lesson to that right now, right? The way this is virus is spreading really shows just how connected we are, right?
Rich: Yeah. And I said to see you yesterday, I, my hope is that people would recognize this interconnectivity that we have that my God, here’s proof to prove that we’re all connected. Here you go. You know, look at this virus. There’s not a continent on earth not affected by it. And it started from one person. So I mean, that’s the definition of a virus, honestly. But you know, that’s why when something on online goes viral, that’s why we refer to it that way. That’s how honestly part of my idea for what we were doing for the foundation was that very same idea. You know, one thing, going to two things and two going to four, and this exponential growth. So, yeah, I mean it’s a kind of crazy stuff and I’m definitely something that’s worth touching on.
Eric: Yeah. I mean, if a virus can start with one person and spread it to and spread to four and then eventually reach everybody on earth, kind of what we’re experiencing now you know, an idea can too, right?
Rich: Yeah, absolutely.
Eric: A concept, an emotion. So, you know, I think the same thing that we’re seeing with COVID19 can happen for Water Safety, for drowning prevention, for child safety in general, for the idea of being more kind. You know, you just has to keep spreading, you know?
Rich: Yeah, absolutely. Totally agree.
Eric: So that’s kind of a cool thought, but all right, man. So the plan for this, dear listeners, is we’re going to do this once a week. We’re gonna do this every Thursday morning. I think it would probably be up before noon on Thursday Eastern standard time, or Eastern Daylight Time, I think right now. So that’s the plan. Every Thursday in the a.m. we are going to do this thing you know, put a little editing on it and get it up on Facebook, YouTube, and the Apple and Android podcast spots. And we’re gonna see how it goes, you know. I’m excited about it. I liked doing this before with, with a different guest each week and Rich is one of my favorite people I had on, not just because of the Superman stuff behind him, that definitely helps though. So yeah, I’m excited about this and looking forward to doing this.
Rich: And me too Eric and I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to have a platform to be able to share some of these ideas.
Eric: Yeah, absolutely man. All right guys, take it easy. We will see you next Thursday. Take care.
Rich: Awesome. Looking forward to it.
